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Kawhi Leonard traded for DeMar DeRozan

Chadaya

Rookie 1
If Healthy, Kawhi will make the Raptors a Dangerous team especially in the East. Lowry, Ibaka, Jonas, Kawhi and Danny Green is a Solid starting 5. Anouby and Van Vleet are great off the bench. Poeltl was great off the bench last year and will be missed.

Big gamble for the Raptors tho.. they hoping it will be Like PG13 scenario
 

Stewie309

All-Star 2
Staff member
Community Chief
Now a 3 way battle for best player in the East between Kawhi, Giannis, and Embiid but if Giannis and Embiid play like last year and Kawhi plays like 2016-2017 Kawhi then he'll take the crown as top East player If Kawhi resigns then the Spurs got trade raped
 
I'm a Raptors fan, and tbh I'm not too happy about this trade. DeRozan is one of the few star players that are actually loyal to the franchise, and there's no way in hell Kawhi wil re-sign. This is probably just a "yolo" season for the Raptors before they start tanking in 2019-2020, and try to get hometown RJ Barrett. Kawhi doesn't want to be in Toronto anyways, i'm 99% sure he's going to LA next offseason. Honestly, i'm hoping we trade him somewhere else before 2019 free agency starts.
 
Now a 3 way battle for best player in the East between Kawhi, Giannis, and Embiid but if Giannis and Embiid play like last year and Kawhi plays like 2016-2017 Kawhi then he'll take the crown as top East player If Kawhi resigns then the Spurs got trade raped
I don't see how whether or not Kawhi re-signs impacts the value of the trade for the Spurs? Seems like a pretty good deal for SA either way considering Kawhi didn't want to be there and no one else was willing to offer more. As for Toronto, I think they did need to mix it up and if Kawhi goes to the Finals as a Raptor and LBJ loses in the 1st round to GS or Houston, it might make Kawhi think twice.
 

Stewie309

All-Star 2
Staff member
Community Chief
Now a 3 way battle for best player in the East between Kawhi, Giannis, and Embiid but if Giannis and Embiid play like last year and Kawhi plays like 2016-2017 Kawhi then he'll take the crown as top East player If Kawhi resigns then the Spurs got trade raped
I don't see how whether or not Kawhi re-signs impacts the value of the trade for the Spurs? Seems like a pretty good deal for SA either way considering Kawhi didn't want to be there and no one else was willing to offer more. As for Toronto, I think they did need to mix it up and if Kawhi goes to the Finals as a Raptor and LBJ loses in the 1st round to GS or Houston, it might make Kawhi think twice.
It impacts it because Kawhi is way better then DeRozan so if Toronto can keep a way better player that is younger long term then they won because they got an upgrade while the Spurs got a downgrade not counting the "I don't want to be here" part obviously because if both players are ok with it and stay there for the rest of their careers then it's no contest who won on a pure player vs player value
 
Now a 3 way battle for best player in the East between Kawhi, Giannis, and Embiid but if Giannis and Embiid play like last year and Kawhi plays like 2016-2017 Kawhi then he'll take the crown as top East player If Kawhi resigns then the Spurs got trade raped
I don't see how whether or not Kawhi re-signs impacts the value of the trade for the Spurs? Seems like a pretty good deal for SA either way considering Kawhi didn't want to be there and no one else was willing to offer more. As for Toronto, I think they did need to mix it up and if Kawhi goes to the Finals as a Raptor and LBJ loses in the 1st round to GS or Houston, it might make Kawhi think twice.
It impacts it because Kawhi is way better then DeRozan so if Toronto can keep a way better player that is younger long term then they won because they got an upgrade while the Spurs got a downgrade not counting the "I don't want to be here" part obviously because if both players are ok with it and stay there for the rest of their careers then it's no contest who won on a pure player vs player value
LOL...ok, but obviously the bolded part IS the situation. Ironically enough, Kawhi appears to be such a D bag that now he doesn't even want to suit up for Toronto and they still traded for him anyway! In that case, I'd say the likelihood of SA "trade raping" Toronto is a more likely scenario at this point.
 

Stewie309

All-Star 2
Staff member
Community Chief
I don't see how whether or not Kawhi re-signs impacts the value of the trade for the Spurs? Seems like a pretty good deal for SA either way considering Kawhi didn't want to be there and no one else was willing to offer more. As for Toronto, I think they did need to mix it up and if Kawhi goes to the Finals as a Raptor and LBJ loses in the 1st round to GS or Houston, it might make Kawhi think twice.
It impacts it because Kawhi is way better then DeRozan so if Toronto can keep a way better player that is younger long term then they won because they got an upgrade while the Spurs got a downgrade not counting the "I don't want to be here" part obviously because if both players are ok with it and stay there for the rest of their careers then it's no contest who won on a pure player vs player value
LOL...ok, but obviously the bolded part IS the situation. Ironically enough, Kawhi appears to be such a D bag that now he doesn't even want to suit up for Toronto and they still traded for him anyway! In that case, I'd say the likelihood of SA "trade raping" Toronto is a more likely scenario at this point.
What's with the condescending attitude at the start of that? And if he doesn't want to play for them they can trade him anyways they still got rid of a big contract of a 1 sided player that chokes under pressure so even if he is traded somewhere that he will play then yes they still ended up trade raping the Spurs because now the Spurs are stuck with DeRozan while the Raptors who have no dog in the fight with who he goes to can trade him wherever they want including who the Spurs didn't want to trade with (Lakers) and get a good package back from it for now and the future

But like I said from a pure player vs player standpoint Kawhi runs circles around DeRozan it's not even close which was my point from the get-go
 
It impacts it because Kawhi is way better then DeRozan so if Toronto can keep a way better player that is younger long term then they won because they got an upgrade while the Spurs got a downgrade not counting the "I don't want to be here" part obviously because if both players are ok with it and stay there for the rest of their careers then it's no contest who won on a pure player vs player value
LOL...ok, but obviously the bolded part IS the situation. Ironically enough, Kawhi appears to be such a D bag that now he doesn't even want to suit up for Toronto and they still traded for him anyway! In that case, I'd say the likelihood of SA "trade raping" Toronto is a more likely scenario at this point.
What's with the condescending attitude at the start of that? And if he doesn't want to play for them they can trade him anyways they still got rid of a big contract of a 1 sided player that chokes under pressure so even if he is traded somewhere that he will play then yes they still ended up trade raping the Spurs because now the Spurs are stuck with DeRozan while the Raptors who have no dog in the fight with who he goes to can trade him wherever they want including who the Spurs didn't want to trade with (Lakers) and get a good package back from it for now and the future

But like I said from a pure player vs player standpoint Kawhi runs circles around DeRozan it's not even close which was my point from the get-go
I thought it was funny that you didn't think it was relevant to include the situation between Kawhi and the Spurs when evaluating the merits of the trade for both teams. In my opinion, this is extremely vital when making the evaluation. Disregarding Kawhi's position with respect to the Spurs and then saying SA "could" get trade raped if Kawhi stays in Toronto isn't very logical to me (and seems to be influenced by your opinion of DeRozan not being a playoff contender based on losses to the Cavs in the playoffs the past several years). That same logic would mean the Cavs got the better end of the Boston trade because if they had kept Kyrie and he had to have surgery anyway then maybe they don't make the Finals this year and who knows about his playing future, when the fact was (just like in the Kawhi situation) there weren't any trade partners other than Boston willing to part with any meaningful assets when they clearly knew Kyrie wanted out of Cleveland. How much better does trading Kyrie go for the Cavs (or SA with Kawhi) if none of the behind the scenes fubar between him and LBJ is publicized? Clearly a lot if you believe the reports they had a deal for PG13 in place and then that deal looks even better (again using your logic) when Kyrie goes public with the fact he demanded a trade AFTER the fact.

Have you seen the reports on the next CBA and what most are saying will be a long work stoppage in 2021? The irony being that players like LBJ foregoing the big payouts to create Super Teams (of the future in the case of LA but more about Miami). Owners will have leverage in the contract negotiations (e.g. advocating a hard salary cap) while the players will just sit out. All of these pre-Madonnas need a reality check in how contracts work and what their "rights" are relative to them. Kawhi threatening to sit out in Toronto because his feelings got hurt in SA is a bs move and in my opinion, the NBA should force him to play out the time he sat out by not allowing him to sign as a FA next season but extending it by however long he doesn't suit up after being medically cleared (basically 2 seasons if he sits out this one).

EDIT: looking at their career stats objectively, on paper there's not a "huge" disparity in their play. I do agree that DeRozan has underperformed in the playoffs (your major beef I think) but perhaps a change of scenery could have the same impact on him as it did on Victor Oladipo?! As for the contract, I think DeRozan benefited from the jump in salary cap in 2015-2016 when GM's and Owners went nuts overpaying players so while it does benefit the Raptors by unloading it, one could argue they would've made the Finals had it not been for LBJ so perhaps they could've won the East with their current roster this coming season?!
 

Stewie309

All-Star 2
Staff member
Community Chief
LOL...ok, but obviously the bolded part IS the situation. Ironically enough, Kawhi appears to be such a D bag that now he doesn't even want to suit up for Toronto and they still traded for him anyway! In that case, I'd say the likelihood of SA "trade raping" Toronto is a more likely scenario at this point.
What's with the condescending attitude at the start of that? And if he doesn't want to play for them they can trade him anyways they still got rid of a big contract of a 1 sided player that chokes under pressure so even if he is traded somewhere that he will play then yes they still ended up trade raping the Spurs because now the Spurs are stuck with DeRozan while the Raptors who have no dog in the fight with who he goes to can trade him wherever they want including who the Spurs didn't want to trade with (Lakers) and get a good package back from it for now and the future

But like I said from a pure player vs player standpoint Kawhi runs circles around DeRozan it's not even close which was my point from the get-go
I thought it was funny that you didn't think it was relevant to include the situation between Kawhi and the Spurs when evaluating the merits of the trade for both teams. In my opinion, this is extremely vital when making the evaluation. Disregarding Kawhi's position with respect to the Spurs and then saying SA "could" get trade raped if Kawhi stays in Toronto isn't very logical to me (and seems to be influenced by your opinion of DeRozan not being a playoff contender based on losses to the Cavs in the playoffs the past several years). That same logic would mean the Cavs got the better end of the Boston trade because if they had kept Kyrie and he had to have surgery anyway then maybe they don't make the Finals this year and who knows about his playing future, when the fact was (just like in the Kawhi situation) there weren't any trade partners other than Boston willing to part with any meaningful assets when they clearly knew Kyrie wanted out of Cleveland. How much better does trading Kyrie go for the Cavs (or SA with Kawhi) if none of the behind the scenes fubar between him and LBJ is publicized? Clearly a lot if you believe the reports they had a deal for PG13 in place and then that deal looks even better (again using your logic) when Kyrie goes public with the fact he demanded a trade AFTER the fact.

Have you seen the reports on the next CBA and what most are saying will be a long work stoppage in 2021? The irony being that players like LBJ foregoing the big payouts to create Super Teams (of the future in the case of LA but more about Miami). Owners will have leverage in the contract negotiations (e.g. advocating a hard salary cap) while the players will just sit out. All of these pre-Madonnas need a reality check in how contracts work and what their "rights" are relative to them. Kawhi threatening to sit out in Toronto because his feelings got hurt in SA is a bs move and in my opinion, the NBA should force him to play out the time he sat out by not allowing him to sign as a FA next season but extending it by however long he doesn't suit up after being medically cleared (basically 2 seasons if he sits out this one).

EDIT: looking at their career stats objectively, on paper there's not a "huge" disparity in their play. I do agree that DeRozan has underperformed in the playoffs (your major beef I think) but perhaps a change of scenery could have the same impact on him as it did on Victor Oladipo?! As for the contract, I think DeRozan benefited from the jump in salary cap in 2015-2016 when GM's and Owners went nuts overpaying players so while it does benefit the Raptors by unloading it, one could argue they would've made the Finals had it not been for LBJ so perhaps they could've won the East with their current roster this coming season?!
My "major beef" was him being trash on defense but great on offense while Kawhi is amazing on both being a bad defender plays part in playoff choking because if your shot isn't going how else are you gonna help your team if you suck on defense and I've said many times these past few months (not really here) that Kawhi pulled a ***** move by bullying his way out of SA and now potentially Toronto and that he should by law be forced to either give all the money back and the teams should be compensated with draft picks (no compensatory picks in the NBA yet) or he should have to play for free the amount of time he sat healthy because that attitude being widespread will kill the NBA and any other league because then players could force their way to make mega teams (not just super teams)
 

Altavilla

Rookie 2
It seems to me that the Spurs got a very good deal out of a problem, which was what Kawhi had become. Therefore, maybe Toronto overpayed a bit.
 

Anatdoc

Pro 2
It seems to me that the Spurs got a very good deal out of a problem, which was what Kawhi had become. Therefore, maybe Toronto overpayed a bit.
It seems to me that way too.. die hard fan of how kawhi plays and was very sad how last year progressed.. but it was obvious with (pop+Tony+manu's comments) that the team dynamic was done so him leaving makes sense.. and the fact that they got an all star in return instead of nothing makes it a huge win for the spurs.. this means they can contend at least (no one's going to beat the warriors unless RONDO has a master plan.. lol)..
As for the raptors it's obvious .. they just want to take the risk.. if it works out.. having Danny and kawhi along with their team makes them a defensive nightmare for most teams.. best case scenario they compete and maybe upset the Celtics/sixers..
worse case scenario kawhi is not the the beast that he was/doesn't fit into their system.. he gets traded at the deadline for something great.. absolute worst would him walking away next year in which case the risk didn't pay off
 
It seems to me that the Spurs got a very good deal out of a problem, which was what Kawhi had become. Therefore, maybe Toronto overpayed a bit.
It seems to me that way too.. die hard fan of how kawhi plays and was very sad how last year progressed.. but it was obvious with (pop+Tony+manu's comments) that the team dynamic was done so him leaving makes sense.. and the fact that they got an all star in return instead of nothing makes it a huge win for the spurs.. this means they can contend at least (no one's going to beat the warriors unless RONDO has a master plan.. lol)..
As for the raptors it's obvious .. they just want to take the risk.. if it works out.. having Danny and kawhi along with their team makes them a defensive nightmare for most teams.. best case scenario they compete and maybe upset the Celtics/sixers..
worse case scenario kawhi is not the the beast that he was/doesn't fit into their system.. he gets traded at the deadline for something great.. absolute worst would him walking away next year in which case the risk didn't pay off
There is a small silver lining if he does walk. At least Toronto was able to dump DeRozan?s overpriced contract.
 
Now that I think about it, I doubt the Raptors had a choice. It's tough losing DeRozan, but clearly the two stars they had weren't bringing the team anywhere. I actually like this risk by Masai, it gets us to have 1 season where we have a better chance at reaching the finals (How are you going to beat 5 all-stars), then if Kawhi leaves, we start tanking for the future, and build a contending team. The DeRozan-Lowry Raptors era has ended, and if Masai wanted to win, he had no choice but to trade for Kawhi.
 
I don't think there was a winner in this trade.

The Spurs no doubt win 50-odd games and continue to make the playoffs in Pop's final couple of seasons but they're not serious contenders and the model franchise that was supposed to transition seamlessly from the Duncan era to the Leonard era now looks destined for the rebuilding period it was so desperate to avoid. Not finding a way to keep Kawhi and his people happy is a huge blunder on the organization's part and suggests to me that the Spurs management isn't as strong as it once was.

The Raptors, on the other hand, have overreacted to losing to the Cavs. They fired the Coach of the Year and traded their franchise player to try to cash in on the open East in the hope that Leonard will have the desire and the motivation to play well in a gap year before he leaves as a free agent. There's every possibility that he sits games out, demands a trade, etc. Maybe he'll surprise everyone and have a stellar year but this team looks destined for a rebuild as well.

The Spurs had to trade Kawhi and Toronto was the only team that would give them anything decent. They made out okay from that point-of-view but it was crazy that things reached this point and I just don't see much of a future for either of these teams in 2 or 3 years time. Which may seem like an eternity in NBA years but think about how long it took Toronto to climb their way to the top of the East and they've blown it up prematurely.
 
The Spurs had to trade Kawhi and Toronto was the only team that would give them anything decent. They made out okay from that point-of-view but it was crazy that things reached this point and I just don't see much of a future for either of these teams in 2 or 3 years time. Which may seem like an eternity in NBA years but think about how long it took Toronto to climb their way to the top of the East and they've blown it up prematurely.
And what else could Toronto do? Keeping DeRozan will only result in constant 2nd round losses for the team; even as a Raptors fan, I can agree that he underperforms in the playoffs. With Philly and Boston on the rise, there's no way this Raptors team lead by DeRozan can get far in the playoffs. I understand that they took what seems like an eternity to build to the top, but they really had no other choice. At least they didn't trade their 3 key young pieces (FVV, OG, Siakam), and so keeping DeRozan would only delay a rebuild. Trading for Kawhi and getting rid of DeRozan's 2-3 years 28 million $ contract, though it's tough for the fans, it's definitely the best move they could've made. As for the Spurs, they probably just don't want Pop to coach a rebuilding team for his last 2 years. They won't be rebuilding or getting close to the Finals for the next few years, so yeah, it'll take a long while before they get their next championship.
 
I don't think there was a winner in this trade.

The Spurs no doubt win 50-odd games and continue to make the playoffs in Pop's final couple of seasons but they're not serious contenders and the model franchise that was supposed to transition seamlessly from the Duncan era to the Leonard era now looks destined for the rebuilding period it was so desperate to avoid. Not finding a way to keep Kawhi and his people happy is a huge blunder on the organization's part and suggests to me that the Spurs management isn't as strong as it once was.

The Raptors, on the other hand, have overreacted to losing to the Cavs. They fired the Coach of the Year and traded their franchise player to try to cash in on the open East in the hope that Leonard will have the desire and the motivation to play well in a gap year before he leaves as a free agent. There's every possibility that he sits games out, demands a trade, etc. Maybe he'll surprise everyone and have a stellar year but this team looks destined for a rebuild as well.

The Spurs had to trade Kawhi and Toronto was the only team that would give them anything decent. They made out okay from that point-of-view but it was crazy that things reached this point and I just don't see much of a future for either of these teams in 2 or 3 years time. Which may seem like an eternity in NBA years but think about how long it took Toronto to climb their way to the top of the East and they've blown it up prematurely.
Good post. I think Toronto is just hoping to make the Finals. I don?t believe any team has a realistic chance to beat the Warriors barring injury and even that depends on who gets injured. I think if Houston signs Carmelo that he will only be a distraction. LA will be a shit show this year so everyone else is essentially playing for 2nd place. If Lacob ponies up money for Draymond and Klay then this could be the greatest dynasty in the modern sports era. The only other thing that could stop them will stop every team and that?s a likely work stoppage in 2021 when the owners flex their muscle over super max contracts failing to keep players from leaving and the players flex their only leverage - sitting out. All signs point to a lengthy work stoppage...
 
The trade makes sense from Toronto's point-of-view if they had serious intentions of trading DeRozan and dumping his contract since they'd never be able to get a comparable of Leonard's worth under normal circumstances. But it's still a gamble since they don't know if Leonard will pass his physical and whether he'll recover from his injury let alone return to MVP/DOPY level.

I don't think Boston and Philly are good enough that Toronto couldn't have made a serious run at the East with DeRozan. Perhaps he would have choked in the playoffs against a non-LeBron team. But we'll never know. Best case scenario for the Raptors is that Leonard plays and has a great year. I hope so since I'm a big fan of his game. Worst case scenario is that he's traded before the end of the season and Toronto are left with nobody as the face of their franchise (aside from Lowry, I suppose.) They may have gotten rid of DeRozan's contract but Toronto has a hard time attracting free agents as it is. Then the one guy who did commit to the team they traded after assuring him it wouldn't happen. Not a good look.

The other thing that I haven't seen mentioned a lot is that Kawhi already has a ring. And he tasted championship success at a young age. What makes people think he's chasing a ring or a finals berth? Especially when he wanted out of one of the most successful organizations in pro sports? I really don't have this image of Kawhi being hungry to win. He seems to want to control his career the same way that LeBron and Durant are and that means playing where he wants to play and that's L.A. I would be very surprised if we see a repeat of the Paul George situation next summer. But hey, crazier things have happened. They usually involve Golden State, though.
 

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